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	<title>Comments on: More on bicycle lanes</title>
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		<title>By: AlexWetmore</title>
		<link>http://alexwetmore.org/archives/502/comment-page-1#comment-4094</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexWetmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/alex_wetmore/archive/2007/10/13/more-on-bicycle-lanes.aspx#comment-4094</guid>
		<description>In those situations I actually think it is better to have the bike lane cross and go to the left of the right turn lane.  It doesn&#039;&#039;t make sense to have cars turning across cyclists.

There are some reasonable examples in Seattle, I&#039;&#039;ll take a photo when I see one and post it.  The problem is that this design isn&#039;&#039;t consistently used.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In those situations I actually think it is better to have the bike lane cross and go to the left of the right turn lane.  It doesn&#8221;t make sense to have cars turning across cyclists.</p>
<p>There are some reasonable examples in Seattle, I&#8221;ll take a photo when I see one and post it.  The problem is that this design isn&#8221;t consistently used.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://alexwetmore.org/archives/502/comment-page-1#comment-4093</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 05:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/alex_wetmore/archive/2007/10/13/more-on-bicycle-lanes.aspx#comment-4093</guid>
		<description>Where it&#039;&#039;s practical, I think one of the best solutions, at least for right turns is to have a dedicated turn lane to the -left- of the bike lane, with the traffic lane clearly marked as crossing the bike lane, so that the cyclists going straight have the right of way. There are quite a few of these where I live in Boulder, CO, and they&#039;&#039;ve worked very well for me. The only times I&#039;&#039;ve been hit are at separate bike path / road intersections. The idea of a line of parked cars between me and the usually oblivious drivers (a la the NY sketch) would do nothing to make me feel any safer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where it&#8217;&#8217;s practical, I think one of the best solutions, at least for right turns is to have a dedicated turn lane to the -left- of the bike lane, with the traffic lane clearly marked as crossing the bike lane, so that the cyclists going straight have the right of way. There are quite a few of these where I live in Boulder, CO, and they&#8221;ve worked very well for me. The only times I&#8221;ve been hit are at separate bike path / road intersections. The idea of a line of parked cars between me and the usually oblivious drivers (a la the NY sketch) would do nothing to make me feel any safer.</p>
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		<title>By: Rory</title>
		<link>http://alexwetmore.org/archives/502/comment-page-1#comment-4092</link>
		<dc:creator>Rory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/alex_wetmore/archive/2007/10/13/more-on-bicycle-lanes.aspx#comment-4092</guid>
		<description>the new york graphic is interesting, especially when you think about how the signal will operate.  when mentioning the extra signal, I would view it as a positive, and it would not have to be linked to a bike lane.

Another example of a situation like this would be bus priority at signals.  this is where there is another signal indication for the buses, to give them a head start of the stopped traffic. if this would be the same thing for the bike signal, it wouldn&#039;&#039;t necessarily create more signals, but rather utilize more of the existing system.

does this make it either more efficient or safe? no and maybe yes.  a cyclist still has to stop, and now you&#039;&#039;ve increased the amount of green time for that phase, which either makes the time a car has to wait on the other approach longer.  in terms of safety, a cyclist now has their own phase, which might create a false sense of security that a car would remained stop and not confuse the cyclist signal for their own. that&#039;&#039;s a might, not a definately.

the only application the above example could be useful would be either on 2nd or 4th in downtown seattle, since those are the only multilane one way streets with parking on both sides, that i&#039;&#039;m aware of.  this application would be more useful to avoid getting hit by a passenger getting out of a car.  this as i understand it is a problem, since most passengers can&#039;&#039;t see out of their side mirror, and aren&#039;&#039;t paying attention to people coming down the road.

if these existed on 2nd, I&#039;&#039;d still ride in the middle of the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the new york graphic is interesting, especially when you think about how the signal will operate.  when mentioning the extra signal, I would view it as a positive, and it would not have to be linked to a bike lane.</p>
<p>Another example of a situation like this would be bus priority at signals.  this is where there is another signal indication for the buses, to give them a head start of the stopped traffic. if this would be the same thing for the bike signal, it wouldn&#8221;t necessarily create more signals, but rather utilize more of the existing system.</p>
<p>does this make it either more efficient or safe? no and maybe yes.  a cyclist still has to stop, and now you&#8221;ve increased the amount of green time for that phase, which either makes the time a car has to wait on the other approach longer.  in terms of safety, a cyclist now has their own phase, which might create a false sense of security that a car would remained stop and not confuse the cyclist signal for their own. that&#8217;&#8217;s a might, not a definately.</p>
<p>the only application the above example could be useful would be either on 2nd or 4th in downtown seattle, since those are the only multilane one way streets with parking on both sides, that i&#8221;m aware of.  this application would be more useful to avoid getting hit by a passenger getting out of a car.  this as i understand it is a problem, since most passengers can&#8221;t see out of their side mirror, and aren&#8221;t paying attention to people coming down the road.</p>
<p>if these existed on 2nd, I&#8221;d still ride in the middle of the road.</p>
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		<title>By: AlexWetmore</title>
		<link>http://alexwetmore.org/archives/502/comment-page-1#comment-4091</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexWetmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/alex_wetmore/archive/2007/10/13/more-on-bicycle-lanes.aspx#comment-4091</guid>
		<description>Thanks Andrew.  I hadn&#039;&#039;t noticed that extra bike graphic.

It shows that bicycles are second class citizens to me.  A car that is turning left doesn&#039;&#039;t need to wait for another light cycle (they can turn when they have a green light).  A bicycle needs to wait for a green to get to the intersection, then wait for the green on 19th when they want to make their left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Andrew.  I hadn&#8221;t noticed that extra bike graphic.</p>
<p>It shows that bicycles are second class citizens to me.  A car that is turning left doesn&#8221;t need to wait for another light cycle (they can turn when they have a green light).  A bicycle needs to wait for a green to get to the intersection, then wait for the green on 19th when they want to make their left.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://alexwetmore.org/archives/502/comment-page-1#comment-4090</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/alex_wetmore/archive/2007/10/13/more-on-bicycle-lanes.aspx#comment-4090</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;&#039;t like that NYC design, either, but it does look like they put some thought into how bikes should turn right onto 19th.  It looks like bikes are supposed to turn and come to a stop with traffic on 19th and wait for a green light to cross 9th Ave.  There is a little bike graphic at the intersection for bikes on 19th next to the little island.  But I must say, if I was riding there, I would still be in the main travel lanes, not in the bike lane.

And I like that sign.  I wouldn&#039;&#039;t mind putting something like that up in a few intersections around here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8221;t like that NYC design, either, but it does look like they put some thought into how bikes should turn right onto 19th.  It looks like bikes are supposed to turn and come to a stop with traffic on 19th and wait for a green light to cross 9th Ave.  There is a little bike graphic at the intersection for bikes on 19th next to the little island.  But I must say, if I was riding there, I would still be in the main travel lanes, not in the bike lane.</p>
<p>And I like that sign.  I wouldn&#8221;t mind putting something like that up in a few intersections around here.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Blasdel</title>
		<link>http://alexwetmore.org/archives/502/comment-page-1#comment-4089</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Blasdel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/alex_wetmore/archive/2007/10/13/more-on-bicycle-lanes.aspx#comment-4089</guid>
		<description>I&#039;&#039;ve gotten hit or bumped at least half a dozen times in the &#039;&#039;suicide slot&#039;&#039; in years past, even on striped bicycle lanes.

I started moving into the lane near rolling intersections, and  stopped rolling past waiting cars. When stopped or slowing at intersections along with cars, I *always* take the full lane. I haven&#039;&#039;t been hit since I started doing that, though I have gotten puzzled looks and occasional yelling from drivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8221;ve gotten hit or bumped at least half a dozen times in the &#8216;&#8217;suicide slot&#8221; in years past, even on striped bicycle lanes.</p>
<p>I started moving into the lane near rolling intersections, and  stopped rolling past waiting cars. When stopped or slowing at intersections along with cars, I *always* take the full lane. I haven&#8221;t been hit since I started doing that, though I have gotten puzzled looks and occasional yelling from drivers.</p>
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		<title>By: AlexWetmore</title>
		<link>http://alexwetmore.org/archives/502/comment-page-1#comment-4088</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexWetmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 20:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/alex_wetmore/archive/2007/10/13/more-on-bicycle-lanes.aspx#comment-4088</guid>
		<description>I&#039;&#039;ll pull over if there is a queue behind me and it is safe for me to pull over.  If I&#039;&#039;m approaching an intersection then it is unlikely to be safer.  If the road has two lanes going in my direction, or little traffic in the other direction, then it is better to just let the cars pass.

I think that Michaal Bluejay&#039;&#039;s bicyclesafe website is really good and covers the basics.  Kent links to it from his post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8221;ll pull over if there is a queue behind me and it is safe for me to pull over.  If I&#8221;m approaching an intersection then it is unlikely to be safer.  If the road has two lanes going in my direction, or little traffic in the other direction, then it is better to just let the cars pass.</p>
<p>I think that Michaal Bluejay&#8217;&#8217;s bicyclesafe website is really good and covers the basics.  Kent links to it from his post.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Liggett</title>
		<link>http://alexwetmore.org/archives/502/comment-page-1#comment-4087</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Liggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 17:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/alex_wetmore/archive/2007/10/13/more-on-bicycle-lanes.aspx#comment-4087</guid>
		<description>Nice post.

I would argue that, along with the suggestions in your last parargaph, cyclists need to act like other slow moving vehicles and pull over if a large queue forms behind them.  I rarely need to do this, but sometimes if I&#039;&#039;m taking the lane during a rush hour, I do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post.</p>
<p>I would argue that, along with the suggestions in your last parargaph, cyclists need to act like other slow moving vehicles and pull over if a large queue forms behind them.  I rarely need to do this, but sometimes if I&#8221;m taking the lane during a rush hour, I do.</p>
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